Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106

01/20/2005 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS


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08:01:55 AM Start
08:02:59 AM Department of Administration, Alaska Public Offices Commission
09:35:23 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Teleconference <Listen Only> --
+ Overview: Dept. of Admin. TELECONFERENCED
AK Public Offices Commission (APOC)
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                        January 20, 2005                                                                                        
                           8:01 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Paul Seaton, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Jim Elkins                                                                                                       
Representative Carl Gatto                                                                                                       
Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                         
Representative Jay Ramras                                                                                                       
Representative Berta Gardner                                                                                                    
Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW(S): DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, ALASKA PUBLIC OFFICES                                                                
COMMISSION (APOC)                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BROOKE MILES, Executive Director                                                                                                
Alaska Public Offices Commission (APOC)                                                                                         
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented an overview of APOC.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  PAUL  SEATON  called  the  House  State  Affairs  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order at  8:01:55  AM.    Representatives                                                             
Elkins, Gatto,  Ramras, Gardner, and  Seaton were present  at the                                                               
call to  order.   Representatives Lynn  and Gruenberg  arrived as                                                               
the meeting was in progress.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW(S)                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
^DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, ALASKA PUBLIC OFFICES COMMISSION                                                               
                                                                                                                                
8:02:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  announced that the  only order of business  was the                                                               
overview regarding the Alaska Public Offices Commission (APOC).                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:03:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BROOKE   MILES,  Executive   Director,   Alaska  Public   Offices                                                               
Commission (APOC), said she thinks  the agency is unique, because                                                               
the legislature interacts with it.   She said she would provide a                                                               
brief overview,  including a history  of APOC and summary  of the                                                               
activities during the calendar year 2004.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:05:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked Ms. Miles  to address the  computer recording                                                               
system that  candidates use to  record their campaign funds.   He                                                               
asked if  APOC has plans  to change the  system and make  it more                                                               
user friendly.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[Chair Seaton turned the gavel over to Acting Chair Gatto.]                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:06:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES responded that the  action of the legislature last year                                                               
in removing the  ability of the commission  to mandate electronic                                                               
filing, compounded  with the loss  of $100,000  and a loss  of 20                                                               
percent  of the  staff, was  a  blow to  her and  to the  agency.                                                               
However, because of problems with  the old system, the agency did                                                               
receive funding  for a new system.   She said the  old electronic                                                               
filing system (ELF) is almost obsolete.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:07:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES  told the committee  that the new system  is web-based,                                                               
and she  emphasized that  it is  user friendly.   She  stated her                                                               
belief that the system is a lot better.  She offered examples.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:09:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON   suggested  the   House  State   Affairs  Standing                                                               
Committee would be willing to test the new system.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:10:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN said he supports  electronic filing.  He said                                                               
his own personal checking account allows  him to bank online.  He                                                               
suggested that  candidates have an  online bank account  in which                                                               
they could deposit contributions,  and he stressed the importance                                                               
of having a password to use for such accounts.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:12:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES  said she  thinks  continual,  real-time reporting  is                                                               
something  that  may  evolve  from  electronic  filing,  and  the                                                               
commission would support that idea.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:13:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO mentioned  TurboTax  and Quicken  [computer                                                               
software].    He  related  two  instances where  a  bank  made  a                                                               
mistake.    He requested  that  APOC  get  something that  is  so                                                               
intuitive that it won't let a  person continue if he/she has made                                                               
a mistake.   He  mentioned a  "dichotomous key"  - a  system that                                                               
creates questions with easy answers.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:17:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES  indicated that the new  system will allow a  person to                                                               
use  Quicken,   or  other  software   programs.     Returning  to                                                               
Representative Lynn's  comments about passwords, she  said people                                                               
will be  able to read  the new system  on the Internet  without a                                                               
password,  but  those  [candidates] filing  will  have  protected                                                               
space behind a firewall.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:19:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES  said the  APOC is  a quasi-judicial  regulatory agency                                                               
responsible  for  administering  the  following  four  disclosure                                                               
laws:   AS 15.13 -  the campaign disclosure  law; AS 24.45  - the                                                               
regulation  of  lobbying law;  AS  39.50  - the  public  official                                                               
disclosure  law;   and  AS  24.60.200   -  the  section   of  the                                                               
legislative   ethics   law   which  requires   annual   financial                                                               
disclosure by  legislators and legislative directors.   Ms. Miles                                                               
offered details regarding each law.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:21:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG noted  that  administrative law  judges                                                               
were created last year.  He asked if they are required to file.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:21:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES answered  no, because the enabling  legislation did not                                                               
include that requirement.   In response to  a follow-up question,                                                               
she said  she believes  that the function  of the  individual who                                                               
acts as the  chief administrator law judge should  be required to                                                               
report.   In  regard to  the other  judges, she  said she  has no                                                               
opinion as  to whether or  not they  should be required  to file,                                                               
although  she said  there  would  be little  harm  in  it.   With                                                               
respect  to people  employed by  the  State of  Alaska, she  said                                                               
their   sources  of   income  and   indebtedness  are   generally                                                               
straightforward.  She  noted that all of  the investment officers                                                               
who work at the Department of Revenue file the statements.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:23:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  mentioned blind  trusts.  He  asked Ms.                                                               
Miles  if she  has  any feeling  as to  whether  the blind  trust                                                               
statutes and other related statutes need to be reworked.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES said she doesn't know, but would look into it.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:24:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES,  in response  to  a  request for  clarification  from                                                               
Representative Gatto, confirmed that  she administers the law and                                                               
her opinions  about who should  be checked and who  shouldn't are                                                               
"no different than the opinion of any citizen."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:24:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES   noted  that   AS  24.60   has  basically   the  same                                                               
requirements  as AS  39.50, except  that legislators  must report                                                               
their  gift   activity  to  the  legislative   ethics  committee.                                                               
Financial   disclosure  is   required   from  elected   municipal                                                               
officials in more municipalities than do campaign disclosures.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:26:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES, in  response to a question  from Representative Gatto,                                                               
said the lobbying law would allow a  lobbyist to give a gift to a                                                               
public  official, but  it requires  that gift  be reported.   She                                                               
stated her belief  that most of the laws would  say that gifts of                                                               
transportation  are gifts,  but may  vary regarding  when a  gift                                                               
must be limited or reported.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:28:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES,  in  response  to   a  question  from  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg, said there is always  coordination between herself and                                                               
the coordinator of the Legislative  Ethics Committee and they are                                                               
happy to compare  what's not working and take  suggestions on how                                                               
to make the two laws more synonymous.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:30:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES  said  the  agency  is  always  looking  for  ways  to                                                               
streamline the  filing process.   When a report  is substantially                                                               
complete, the staff  will not audit someone.  If  a complaint was                                                               
filed over  missing information, Ms. Miles  explained, APOC would                                                               
do its best to get the missing information from the filer.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:33:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES stated that all of  the reports filed with APOC and the                                                               
financial disclosures  from municipalities  that are  housed with                                                               
municipal clerks  are public  record.  The  staff of  APOC spends                                                               
considerable time making reports available to the public.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:34:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES turned to the history of  APOC.  She said the result of                                                               
the  occurrence of  Watergate  in the  1970s  was that  concerned                                                               
citizens  nationwide   sought  laws  to  make   politicians  more                                                               
accountable.  In  1974, two citizen petitions  were scheduled for                                                               
the  ballot:    one  regarding campaign  finance  and  the  other                                                               
regarding campaign disclosure, which  was then called conflict of                                                               
interest.   In 1974, the  Alaska State Legislature enacted  a law                                                               
that was  later found by the  Alaska Supreme Court to  be similar                                                               
to  the citizens'  petition regarding  campaign finance,  and the                                                               
legislation  became  law.    However,   no  law  similar  to  the                                                               
financial disclosure initiative was  passed, thus that initiative                                                               
became law through the public process.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:35:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES  noted  that  Alaska's  lobbying  law  dates  back  to                                                               
territorial  days; the  Alaska State  Constitution requires  that                                                               
the   lobbying  activities   be   regulated   and  assigns   that                                                               
responsibility  to the  legislature.   In  1976, the  legislature                                                               
tuned up the  lobbying law and gave the responsibility  for it to                                                               
APOC.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:36:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES said  the mission  of APOC  is to  encourage citizens'                                                               
confidence in  their appointed and  elected public  officials, by                                                               
administering and enforcing the disclosure  laws and the rules of                                                               
conducting  campaign   activities,  and  by  filing   the  annual                                                               
financial disclosure statement.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:37:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES  mentioned a landmark  case called, Buckley  v. Valejo,                                                             
which threw out  the whole idea of spending limits  by finding in                                                               
the U.S. Supreme  Court that limiting the ability  of a candidate                                                               
to spend  money on his/her campaign  is a violation of  the First                                                               
Amendment.  Ms.  Miles said there still  are contribution limits.                                                               
In  1996, there  was a  campaign finance  reform, which  took out                                                               
business   and  corporate   interests   from   giving  to   state                                                               
candidates.  It also removed the  ability of lobbyists to give to                                                               
legislative  candidates  outside of  the  district  in which  the                                                               
lobbyist is registered to vote.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:38:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES offered  her understanding that APOC is  the only state                                                               
agency  created  as  a  result  of  the  public.    By  law,  the                                                               
commission is  within the Department of  Administration; however,                                                               
APOC regulates  the governor when  he is  a candidate.   She said                                                               
APOC has its  own voice when speaking with the  media on subjects                                                               
relating to the laws that it administers.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:40:48 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES mentioned  the names and specialties of  several of her                                                               
staff members and commission members.   The staff administers the                                                               
law, but only the commission can  set policy, grant a waiver or a                                                               
reduction in  a civil penalty,  or make the ultimate  decision in                                                               
advisory  opinion   and  the  final  decision   with  respect  to                                                               
complaints.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:42:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES  stated that APOC  has just filed regulations  with the                                                               
lieutenant   governor  that   are   -  for   the   most  part   -                                                               
noncontroversial and  conforming.  The  new regulations  were put                                                               
in place to make the new  complaint process work.  She noted that                                                               
during the  2004 election,  seven administrative  complaints were                                                               
filed.    She said  there  is  a  short timeline  requiring  that                                                               
complaints be  concluded within  60-75 days.   She said  this was                                                               
difficult with the  loss of an investigator, but  worked well all                                                               
the same.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:44:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES  noted   that  the  last  two   complaints  are  being                                                               
continued,  because legislators  are involved.   Legislators  are                                                               
subject to  immunity; however,  an attorney  general said  that a                                                               
legislator  cannot  waive  his/her own  legislative  immunity  in                                                               
matters of civil process.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:44:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  said she  has always been  impressed with                                                               
APOC.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:45:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTING CHAIR  GATTO noted that it's  easy for a person  to file a                                                               
complaint without  having to back  it up, which often  results in                                                               
attention  from  the press,  even  when  it  turns out  that  the                                                               
complaint  was unwarranted.   He  asked if  there is  any way  to                                                               
address the problem.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES said  she isn't sure how to handle  that, because there                                                               
is   a  risk   -  especially   during  campaigning   time  -   of                                                               
disenfranchising the public by not accepting complaints.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:48:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES, in response to  a question from Representative Elkins,                                                               
said it's a  coincidence that many of the people  on the board of                                                               
the commission happen to be attorneys.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:48:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said the  filing of  frivolous lawsuits                                                               
has been  a problem that  the courts have  dealt with for  a long                                                               
time.  He offered his  understanding that there are two remedies:                                                               
abuse of process  and malicious prosecution, the  latter of which                                                               
requires  a  non-meritorious  litigation  pursued  for  malicious                                                               
purposes.   He asked what  Ms. Miles  thinks about having  such a                                                               
remedy in place for APOC.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:49:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES said  she hasn't  given the  matter much  thought, but                                                               
something like that  may be helpful.  In response  to a follow-up                                                               
question,  she said  she  would  send a  copy  of the  previously                                                               
mentioned remarks  of the attorney  general.  She  confirmed that                                                               
those remarks are constitutionally based.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:51:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES,  in  response  to   a  question  from  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg,  said she  doesn't think  APOC  feels undue  influence                                                               
from the  [Department of Administration].   She said  that before                                                               
1979, APOC  was in the governor's  office.  She stated  that APOC                                                               
works with the Department of Law.   The Department of Law is also                                                               
the attorney for  the executive branch.  Ms. Miles  said if there                                                               
were an  instance when  APOC couldn't use  its counsel,  it could                                                               
request independent counsel.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:54:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES, in  response to  questions from  Acting Chair  Gatto,                                                               
said when a person testifies in  public and says who he/she works                                                               
for,  that   testimony  is  "in  sunlight."     Conversely,  when                                                               
lobbyists wine  and dine public  decision makers, that is  not in                                                               
the open.   She said there is  a limit of 40 hours  in a lobbying                                                               
law.   She mentioned a  limit of 4 hours  that was judged  as too                                                               
short a time.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:57:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES  answered a  series  of  questions from  Acting  Chair                                                               
Gatto, regarding  the use of  [Public Office Expense  Term (POET)                                                               
account] and  non-POET [account]  campaign funds.   She indicated                                                               
that there are grey areas.   She said APOC doesn't always have an                                                               
answer, and  she recommended that  the candidate  always consider                                                               
whether his/her spending will be looked at in a negative light.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Due  to technical  difficulties,  the committee  took an  at-ease                                                               
from 9:03 a.m. to 9:07 a.m.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:08:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES  answered  a question  from  Representative  Gruenberg                                                               
regarding surplus  payments or  deposits that  are not  paid back                                                               
until later.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:09:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAMRAS  said  he  was struck  by  hearing  APOC's                                                               
mission statement.   He asked Ms.  Miles if she is  familiar with                                                               
HB 21, which he said is coined, "the liars' bill."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:10:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES said  she is  familiar with  HB 21  and, although  the                                                               
commission has  not discussed  it, they  would agree  that people                                                               
who are  conducting campaigns should  be telling the truth.   She                                                               
said, "To  us, it's  an enforcement quandary."   She  stated that                                                               
truth in advertising  is a great idea.  She  noted that the finer                                                               
point is to ask how much of the truth is the truth.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:12:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS  said sometimes airwaves are  littered with                                                               
horrible things.   He asked if  it would be possible  for APOC to                                                               
handle  these  issues  of outright  falsehoods  in  an  expedited                                                               
fashion.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:13:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES  responded that  the commission can  issue a  cease and                                                               
desist  order, which  would  work  if the  person  giving to  the                                                               
candidate was  breaking the law in  some way.  However,  she said                                                               
the commission wouldn't have the ability  to "do that just on the                                                               
fact of it being untrue."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:14:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTING   CHAIR  GATTO   talked  about   the  fine   line  between                                                               
ascertaining what is true and what is not.  He offered examples.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:16:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES,   in  response   to  questions   from  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg,  noted that  four of  her board  members could  act as                                                               
administrative law judges.  She  said anybody who is dissatisfied                                                               
with a decision by APOC can go to the courts.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:17:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES  answered another  question  from  Acting Chair  Gatto                                                               
regarding the use of campaign surplus funds and office accounts.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:18:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES said  the big  question  is whether  an action  abides                                                               
within  the  guidelines  of  the   law.    She  noted  that  many                                                               
legislators  in both  bodies are  dealing with  surplus funds  in                                                               
their accounts.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:20:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES  explained that  if a  legislator has  surplus campaign                                                               
funds, he/she  can put $5,000  per term  of office into  the POET                                                               
account.  She  offered a brief history of the  use of the reserve                                                               
account and the POET account.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:23:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTING CHAIR  GATTO asked further questions  regarding money left                                                               
in various accounts.  He talked  about not wanting to violate the                                                               
law but wanting to use the money.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:24:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES  told of a  person who used  POET account money  to pay                                                               
home  bills,  and the  commission's  decision  that that  was  in                                                               
violation of the law.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:26:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES  offered an  example of  a case  where a  complaint was                                                               
filed.  She  suggested that one question to ask  is, "How would a                                                               
contributor want money spent?"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:28:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES, in response to  a question from Representative Ramras,                                                               
said APOC can enforce civil  penalties and file complaints.  When                                                               
a  complaint  is adjudicated,  the  commission  can assess  civil                                                               
penalties.  If  the violation is substantial,  the commission can                                                               
hand it over to the Department of Law.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:30:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES,  in response  to a question  from Acting  Chair Gatto,                                                               
said  a  candidate  cannot  accept  contributions  for  a  future                                                               
campaign  until "18  months out."   She  addressed what  could be                                                               
considered campaigning.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:31:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES, in response to  a question from Representative Elkins,                                                               
said APOC does  not go public with violations.   She talked about                                                               
the  benefit  of  the  open  public  process.    In  response  to                                                               
questions  from  Representative  Elkins and  Acting  Chair  Gatto                                                               
regarding a  particular case, she  explained how the  media found                                                               
out about it.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[Acting Chair Gatto turned the gavel back over to Chair Seaton.]                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:34:55 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON thanked  Ms. Miles  and said  that, judging  by the                                                               
type of  bills introduced  to the House,  the committee  would be                                                               
seeing much more of her.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
State  Affairs  Standing  Committee   meeting  was  adjourned  at                                                               
9:35:23 AM.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                

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